Runboard.com
You're welcome.
The Neutral Zone
Welcome To The Neutral Zone:
The place to discuss topics that may cause debates on other boards without getting yelled at or banned!

"It is not so much our friends' help that helps us, as the confidence of their help." - Epicurus


runboard.com       Sign up (learn about it) Sign in (lost password?)


Page:  1  2  3 ... 7  8  9 

 
Order ofMelchizedek Profile
Live feed
Blog
Friends
Miscellaneous info

Registered user
(Top of the page)

Registered: 07-2006
Location: Here I am
Posts: 504
Karma: -2 (+21/-23)
Reply Quote
Good News


What do you believe the "Gospel" actually is? What exactly is "the Good News"?

 emoticon

---

I'm running out of time, to live
Running out of love, to give
Running out of life, within
God help me --RSJ

1/28/2009, 3:53 pm Link to this post Send PM to
 
Pastor Rick Profile
Live feed
Blog
Friends
Miscellaneous info

Administrator
(Top of the page)
Premium


Registered: 07-2005
Location: Runboard Staff Aux
Posts: 1876
Karma: 28 (+41/-13)
Reply Quote
Re: Good News


The Gospel is the message of God to man. God loves us and wants us to be in fellowship with him as his children. To make this happen Jesus died for us so that we can be blood kin with God if we will accept the gift of life Jesus has purchased for us.

Sorry Mel, I had to abbreviate this response because of time constraints on my side.

---

RSFRDAdvertise Boards On TRDREITB
1/30/2009, 10:21 am Link to this post Send e-mail to   Send PM to Blog
 
Order ofMelchizedek Profile
Live feed
Blog
Friends
Miscellaneous info

Registered user
(Top of the page)

Registered: 07-2006
Location: Here I am
Posts: 504
Karma: -2 (+21/-23)
Reply Quote
Re: Good News


Ah, no problem Pastor Rick. You must be the busiest guy on Runboard. I don't think I've ever been to a board where you haven't already been yet! emoticon

I'll ask specific questions, in order to get other people's perspective on it.

Does anyone else know, why would Jesus have to die in order to have a relationship with God?



---

I'm running out of time, to live
Running out of love, to give
Running out of life, within
God help me --RSJ

1/30/2009, 12:32 pm Link to this post Send PM to
 
Order ofMelchizedek Profile
Live feed
Blog
Friends
Miscellaneous info

Registered user
(Top of the page)

Registered: 07-2006
Location: Here I am
Posts: 504
Karma: -2 (+21/-23)
Reply Quote
Re: Good News


Maybe you'd say something like this:

"Believe in Jesus because He died for your sins."
Sins? What sins?
"The things that we do wrong."
Are you telling me that I've done things wrong?
"Well, we ALL do things wrong."
Not me, pal, I'm a pretty good person.
"No, the Bible says we've all sinned."
Then I guess we're all in the same boat, what makes you think you're better than me?
"I'm not better than you, but we all need a Savior, because we've all sinned."
Now I'm offended, buddy, what do you mean? How do you know I've sinned? Have you been stalking me?
"No, listen, this is Good news..."
I don't need you or your news, buzz off, you don't know me!

Hmm, that's not going very well, is it? What could be done differently?



---

I'm running out of time, to live
Running out of love, to give
Running out of life, within
God help me --RSJ

2/2/2009, 10:33 am Link to this post Send PM to
 
Pastor Rick Profile
Live feed
Blog
Friends
Miscellaneous info

Administrator
(Top of the page)
Premium


Registered: 07-2005
Location: Runboard Staff Aux
Posts: 1876
Karma: 28 (+41/-13)
Reply Quote
Re: Good News


You left out two things from what I can see Mel,

First was prayer, without that we fly blind and almost always do harm when we want to do good.

Second, you did not meet the person in your example where they are (the woman at the well is a good example of how to do it right)...

---

RSFRDAdvertise Boards On TRDREITB
2/2/2009, 11:02 am Link to this post Send e-mail to   Send PM to Blog
 
Morwen Oronor Profile
Live feed
Blog
Friends
Miscellaneous info

Resident Scholar
(Top of the page)

Registered: 01-2008
Location: South Africa
Posts: 1743
Karma: 15 (+28/-13)
Reply Quote
Re: Good News


I have a real problem with the assumption that we have all "sinned".
A 'sin' has different definitions in different societies so to claim that everybody has 'sinned' is an assumption of guilt and even in a Court of Law, in most countries anyway, the assumption is innocence before guilt is proved. But that's not my point, this is:
If everybody is a sinner anyway, then what's the point of redemption? Even the most pious people by Mel's definition are sinners, so at what point does it become possible for someone to not be a sinner.
If you have accepted all the terms of Mel's definition of what is 'good', then how come you are still a sinner and how can be become something else?
It's a circular argument. What it's saying is that by the very act of living, you are incapable of achieving the prize because you are a sinner, no matter how good you are.
2/2/2009, 11:40 am Link to this post Send PM to Blog
 
Order ofMelchizedek Profile
Live feed
Blog
Friends
Miscellaneous info

Registered user
(Top of the page)

Registered: 07-2006
Location: Here I am
Posts: 504
Karma: -2 (+21/-23)
Reply Quote
Re: Good News


Excellent point, Pastor Rick! Prayer is essential, because we save no one, salvation is of God, through the Holy Spirit.
But still, can we do more harm than good, when it's not us or our knowledge that saves anyone in the first place?

And the woman at the well is an awesome example. Jesus spoke to her about the natural (physical thirst) and then swung into the spiritual (living water). She was convicted of her own sin, even at that moment living with a man she was not married to. That woman understood that she was not "good" and in fact, awaited the Messiah.


---

Message sent from Heaven
Walked among us as a Man
Son of God and Light of the world
Love divine, crucified, made alive,
You're alive...

2/2/2009, 1:36 pm Link to this post Send PM to
 
Order ofMelchizedek Profile
Live feed
Blog
Friends
Miscellaneous info

Registered user
(Top of the page)

Registered: 07-2006
Location: Here I am
Posts: 504
Karma: -2 (+21/-23)
Reply Quote
Re: Good News


Now, Morwen, you do realize that I base this on the Bible, and I understand that you do not accept that as the Word of God.
However, it is the Bible that says we are all sinners, and I don't believe "sin" is as subjective as some would like to think. Besides, which, the Bible tells us exactly what sin is - falling short of God's holy standard.

Now, then, what is the point of redemption? Precisely what you have written - that all of us are sinners.

quote:

What it's saying is that by the very act of living, you are incapable of achieving the prize because you are a sinner, no matter how good you are.

This is what makes Christianity different from every form of religion out there. Recognizing that you cannot earn your way, yes, you are incapable of achieving the prize.
But there IS a way that has been provided for us.

 emoticon

---

Message sent from Heaven
Walked among us as a Man
Son of God and Light of the world
Love divine, crucified, made alive,
You're alive...

2/2/2009, 1:47 pm Link to this post Send PM to
 
Order ofMelchizedek Profile
Live feed
Blog
Friends
Miscellaneous info

Registered user
(Top of the page)

Registered: 07-2006
Location: Here I am
Posts: 504
Karma: -2 (+21/-23)
Reply Quote
Re: Good News


So, with all that said, here's the problem with the afore mentioned conversation: There must be a knowledge of sin before we recognize our need for a Savior.
You need to see the Law, before you can understand the Grace. You must understand the bad news before the Good News makes sense.

The Apostle Paul said that he had not known sin, but by the Law. No one is saved by the Law, it's purpose is to lead people to Christ.
If we give people the good news, before they understand their need, it doesn't make sense to them. Scripture tells us that the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing (don't our atheist friends see it as 'foolishness', a crutch or mythology? )

Jesus came to seek and save the lost. (Luke 19:10 )

Mark 2:17
On hearing this, Jesus said to them, "It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners."


He did not come for those who consider themselves righteous or good. But judge yourselves by God's moral standard - revealed to us in the 10 Commandments, and see if He came for you, or if you will stand alone on the day of judgment.
Without Him, you will be judged by the standard of the Creator, and His standard is perfection, so "good" isn't good enough, you need to be perfect.
  
Matthew 5:48
Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.


How can we be found perfect? There's only one way:

Colossians 1:28
We proclaim him, admonishing and teaching everyone with all wisdom, so that we may present everyone perfect in Christ.


There will still be some who reject it, but we can at least ensure that they have a proper understanding of what it is that they are rejecting.




---

Message sent from Heaven
Walked among us as a Man
Son of God and Light of the world
Love divine, crucified, made alive,
You're alive...

2/2/2009, 1:50 pm Link to this post Send PM to
 
Morwen Oronor Profile
Live feed
Blog
Friends
Miscellaneous info

Resident Scholar
(Top of the page)

Registered: 01-2008
Location: South Africa
Posts: 1743
Karma: 15 (+28/-13)
Reply Quote
Re: Good News


You aren't getting what I'm saying - if you say that we are all sinners, then no matter what we do, we are still sinners.

Even if there is a way out, the only way out would be to stop living, because by living you are still a sinner. it doesn't matter what kind of religion your practice or how many good deeds you do or even if you accept and proclaim your acceptance of the story of the New Testament, you are still a sinner. According to your definition, Mother Theresa was a sinner, yet according to the rules of her church, she is to be named a saint without the regulated waiting period or performance of miracles, because of the work she did in her lifetime.

Sorry Mel, I can't accept that there is any way out of it. I know what you're going to say is the way out, I've heard it all before but until you can concede that there are truly 'good ' people who do not commit any sin, I cannot accept that there is a way out of being a sinner, so why bother.
2/2/2009, 3:13 pm Link to this post Send PM to Blog
 


Add a reply

Page:  1  2  3 ... 7  8  9 





You are not logged in (login)