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The place to discuss topics that may cause debates on other boards without getting yelled at or banned!

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Lesigner Girl Profile
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Re: Only 39% believe in Evolution!


Heh, I forgot to respond to this:

quote:

But from my pov Kent Hovind is a dishonest speaker picking and choosing what he wants to make a case for what he believes and I really don't wish to be associated with his group. He has some interesting questions but no valid proofs logically or scientifically or even Biblically.


He seems pretty dishonest in every area of his life, and I think his only goal is to make a buck off of gullible people. Tax evasion springs to mind. I'm glad you don't listen to him. emoticon

quote:

Charles Darwin's gradual evolution theory just doesn't survive the evidence anymore than Bishop Ushers timeline of Biblical events does and that's just simple truth.


Evolution does happen gradually. You're right about something you said in an earlier post, though. Macro-evolution doesn't just happen overnight or even in a few generations, because macro-evolution is the product of generations upon generations of micro-evolution. You can't breed two wolves to get a chihuahua, and a chimpanzee doesn't give birth to a human. You start with breeding two wolves, and if you want smaller wolves, you breed the smallest ones of the litter. This is human selection, but natural selection works in much the same way. However, this doesn't account for poodles having curly hair. How many wolves have you seen with curly hair? This curly hair was a mutation, which was passed on to the next generation. While some people are breeding for small size, others are breeding for tameness, etc., and this is how we have so many different breeds today. But when you look at all the different breeds and see how different a lot of them look from wolves (dachshunds, anyone?), you have to wonder where all those different traits came from... unless you already know that it comes from little mutations that add up from generation to generation.

"But it's still a canine," you might say. Of course it's still a canine, because it hasn't had millions of years to evolve from a wolf, but canines evolved out of something that existed before canines. That's gradual evolution.

In the same way, chimpanzees and humans arose out of the same common ancestor, which lived about 4 million years ago. It was a long, gradual process to get us both to where we are now. That's how it works.

Last edited by Lesigner Girl, 9/23/2009, 11:53 pm


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9/23/2009, 11:49 pm Link to this post Send e-mail to   Send PM to Blog
 
Morwen Oronor Profile
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Re: Only 39% believe in Evolution!


This is a very interesting discussion, please keep it up.

Lesa, we discussed elsewhere the theory about how the dinosaurs died out and why it was so sudden and in my writing about it I quoted the theory posited by the TV program about the demise of the dinosaurs, i.e. that it was a meteor striking the area in the north of South America that caused the Ice Age that wiped out the dinosaurs and the warming after the Ice Age that caused the emergence of mammals.
This is evidenced by rock samples taken from various places around the earth that show the same signs no matter where they come from, i.e. that there was a time of extreme cold and that the dinosaurs lived before that time and mammals after. As I said, I don't know enough about this to comment on it, my knowledge is all fairly recent in the world's history.
This is one of the series I watch on TV.
I really do wish I had the mental capacity and the time left in my life to learn all the new science that is emerging. I feel like so much of my life was wasted in a time when most knowledge about pre-history was based on supposition and Darwin's theory was about all there was to read about it. I just don't retain new information as well as I used to so I have to keep reading and rereading and I therefore watch a lot of documentary TV because I find it an easier way to absorb new information. (Declining short term memory retention is becoming a problem).
9/24/2009, 1:17 am Link to this post Send PM to Blog
 
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Re: Only 39% believe in Evolution!


I'm also thoroughly enjoying this discussion, even though I don't have much to contribute towards it .. I'm finding it very interesting so yes please, keep it going!
And I love the friendly interchange of ideas, thoughts and banter to and fro between very intelligent people who know what they're talking about!

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9/24/2009, 5:52 am Link to this post Send e-mail to   Send PM to Blog
 
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Re: Only 39% believe in Evolution!


Same here Petal.....seriously, I love reading pretty much anything Lesa writes....makes me feel smarter, just reading her stuff to be honest!
Problem is I have horrible memory too......especially short term, Doc says it's probably caused by certain meds I take.
But I love to read a good discussion, when one is on the same level as Lesa, like MO.....those discussions are awesome! emoticon

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9/24/2009, 7:35 am Link to this post Send e-mail to   Send PM to Blog
 
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Re: Only 39% believe in Evolution!


Lesa's a bloody genius, she should be a Professor or something.
9/24/2009, 8:22 am Link to this post Send PM to Blog
 
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Re: Only 39% believe in Evolution!


Her sites are definitely better than any college or university web site used FOR teaching....that much I know! emoticon

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9/24/2009, 3:41 pm Link to this post Send e-mail to   Send PM to Blog
 
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Re: Only 39% believe in Evolution!


You're all going to give me a big head, if you keep this up. emoticon emoticon

MO, yes, the meteor has been a predominant theory for quite some time now, for reasons you mentioned.

I would like to elaborate on this bit, lest someone misinterpret it to mean mammals suddenly appeared out of nowhere when the dinosaurs became extinct:

quote:

...that there was a time of extreme cold and that the dinosaurs lived before that time and mammals after.


Mammals lived while dinosaurs still walked the earth, but they weren't as prominent back then. The smaller mammals survived through the catastrophe that killed off the dinosaurs, then some of those mammals evolved into larger species of mammal.

Being small back then was advantageous. When you think about it, how would a T-Rex catch something the size of a mouse when it ran into a hole? Further, why would a T-Rex even waste its energy chasing something that small, which would probably be comparable to us chasing something the size of a grain of sand. Think about how many grains of sand it would take to satisfy your hunger, then imagine having to chase each and every grain of sand one by one. There wouldn't be enough time in the day to collect an entire meal, and you would work off more than you'd eat, with all that running around.

Also, smaller mammals were more able to live through the catastrophe that killed off the dinosaurs. With food being less plentiful after such a catastrophe and during the period that followed, the smaller the animal, the less food they would need to survive. It was also easier for them to find shelter in cracks and crevices or underground, etc.

When the dinosaurs died off, the mammals gradually evolved to fill the niches they left behind, some staying small, and others evolving into larger species. We are mammals, and so are whales. Why do whales give birth the same way humans do, when whales live in the water? Why do they have hip bones, and have other bones that resemble the feet of animals that live on land? Why aren't they more like fish?

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9/24/2009, 7:11 pm Link to this post Send e-mail to   Send PM to Blog
 
Morwen Oronor Profile
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Re: Only 39% believe in Evolution!


What you said was exactly what the final episode of that dinosaur series did, i.e. that is was because there were little mammals and insects (like roaches) that could live underground that they survived the long winter that came after the meteor crash.
Here's one site that talks about it.

This was the series I watched about dinosaurs
9/24/2009, 11:11 pm Link to this post Send PM to Blog
 
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Re: Only 39% believe in Evolution!


Ok, I just wanted to bring some answers to a few of these questions back on page 3. The whole "vestigial organs" thing isn't really any proof of evolution at all. If it were true, it might suggest de-evolution. But, of the compiled list of 180 vestigial organs put together some time ago, almost all of them have been found to have a useful function today. The thing is, we don't know everything, and it is very possible that we will discover the function of something that we currently have no idea what it is for. This isn't proof of evolution and the questions are not unanswerable.

quote:

Why do some whales have hip bones?

In sperm whales they act as an anchor for the muscles of the genitalia.
-National Geographic, “Evolution of Whales”, November 2001, p. 73

To describe these bones as ‘vestigial organs’ is simply trying to make the evidence fit the preconceived theory.

quote:

Why do whales share more DNA with hippos than with anything else that lives in the water?
For that matter, why are whales considered mammals instead of fish?

That's the way that science has determined to classify them.

quote:

Why do ostriches have wings if they can't fly?

For balance and courtship.
http://www.sandiegozoo.org/animalbytes/t-ostrich.html

quote:

Why do moles and some cave-dwelling fish have eyes when they can't see?

They were created that way in order to differentiate between lightness and darkness, not for clear vision as we have.

quote:

Why do some creatures that require air to survive, live in the water?

That's the way they were created. Are you suggesting that they're evolving somehow? For what purpose?

quote:

Why do all human embryos have tails before most of those tails disappear?

They don't. Haeckel's embryos were a nice artistic portrayal, but false. The spine is just longer at earlier development, it's not a "tail."
What about those "gill slits" in human embyos? Do you buy into that one, too?

quote:

Why are some people born with tails?

Couldn't tell ya, I've never seen one.

quote:

The last two tie in with: Why do we all have tail bones?

Because needed muscles are anchored to our tail bones.
This site even mentions people born with "tails."
http://www.ehow.com/about_4595962_the-tail-bone.html

What about all those "vestigial organs"?
http://www.answersingenesis.org/home/area/magazines/TJ/TJv14n2_Vestigial.pdf

quote:

Why did the Bible classify bats as birds?

I threw that last one in for fun, but the rest are based on observation and documentation.

I guess it depends on where you look. There are answers, but would you accept them?
http://www.carm.org/bible-difficulties/genesis-deuteronomy/bat-bird
http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/am/v2/n4/isnt-the-bible-full-of-errors
http://www.errancy.org/bats.html



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9/25/2009, 10:46 am Link to this post Send PM to
 
Morwen Oronor Profile
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Re: Only 39% believe in Evolution!



quote:

hey don't. Haeckel's embryos were a nice artistic portrayal, but false. The spine is just longer at earlier development, it's not a "tail."
What about those "gill slits" in human embyos? Do you buy into that one, too?



Yes they do, I've seen the results of quite a few miscarriages in my time and yes, they look like tadpoles!
In ancient times people used to think that miscarriages happened because God rejected the deformed child that was the result of the woman mating with an animal as evidenced by the tail.
9/25/2009, 12:27 pm Link to this post Send PM to Blog
 


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