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Petal Alderin Profile
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Marriage and Commitment


There seems to be a trend these days where couples move in together and often have children together without going through any form of official marriage ceremony, whether civil or religious.
Do you feel that this is right or wrong? Are there any rights or wrongs in this situation? Is this commitment as sincere as one witnessed by friends and family and sealed with a certificate? Does a relationship such as this have more or less "substance" psychologically in your opinion? How important are the legal implications?
What do you think about gay marriage?

Last edited by Petal Alderin, 10/3/2009, 3:24 am


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10/3/2009, 3:24 am Link to this post Send e-mail to   Send PM to Blog
 
Morwen Oronor Profile
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Re: Marriage and Commitment


The British Government has a serious problem with this trend. You hear them going on about it almost every day and I do believe that it's also very much a trend among modern liberals, in first-world societies more than one among older people. Although we know several older couples, our age, who aren't married and who've been together for many years, long enough to be regarded as being 'married'.
For traditionalists, the idea of commitment comes with the idea of a proper ceremony and a piece of paper, in the same way that traditionalists can't imagine raising children or having a funeral ceremony without involving religion.
So I don't think that it will become the norm, not for a long time anyway in more traditional societies. There will always be older people urging younger people to seal a commitment with a 'piece of paper'.
My personal opinion on marriage is pretty well known and it doesn't really have any significance even within my own family because my kids will follow their own heads anyway.
A lot of people get married for all sorts of reasons, and especially when they are too young to understand that the commitment is more than just the pretty ceremony and the party and that it is ultimately carrying out the roles that your parents are moving away from, i.e. raising a family and taking the kids to school, checking homework, preparing food, doing laundry, mowing the lawn and eventually watching your children do what it is they want to do.
Are you more committed because you've had the ceremony? Most people say 'yes'. I don't entirely agree or disagree, I think the amount of commitment depends very much on the kind of person you are anyway and whether you have the paper or not is not going to change your attitude towards the commitment.
10/3/2009, 4:52 am Link to this post Send PM to Blog
 
bummee Profile
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Re: Marriage and Commitment


That piece of paper that says you are married and is registered some place is not worth as much as is a roll of toilet paper!

My first mate and I were married fo a good 18 years. and we had a legal paper saying so too. I made a commitment to her and her two girls 4 and 5. And I kept that commitment for the entire time we were together!

She proceeded to fill my house and other buildings with her collections of just plain trash. The only good part of that marriage was the two little girls that she brought with her into the marriage.

When they left the nest their mother continued to bring the trash in until I literally had no place to sit down or sleep!

One day I tried to explain how I felt about it and she said she would begin to sort out the trash from the valuble stuff. I gave her a year. She made no effort what so ever.

I had given her an ultimatum, either make some effort to dispose of her so called "treasures," or I would.

After a year passed by with no effort on her part I cleaned a walk in closet and deposit the contents of that closet on the kitchen floor. Yes ! it was a shock for her when she came home from work that day.

She filed for divorce. I had left the choice up to her. Stay and make room for me or else I would make room for myself! She chose to leave!

Her committment was only to find a place to store her trash.

This was about 1982.

Not being in the bar scene or socially active, I did not want to live alone. I placed an advertisement in "THE MOTHER EARTH MAGAZINE," for some one to share the rest of my life with.

What a great adventure that was! About 120 women responded.

I chose Lu Ann. We have been together for about 25 years now.

I told her early on that I would not go thru a legal marriage ceremony with all the crap that went with it again!

No paper is ever going to make two people stay together! No ceremony either civil or religious will ever do any more then make a person feel guilty if the love and commitment is not there!

Bummy



Last edited by bummee, 10/3/2009, 11:22 am
10/3/2009, 10:25 am Link to this post Send e-mail to   Send PM to
 
Petal Alderin Profile
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Re: Marriage and Commitment


Mo I agree with you when you say people frequently marry for reasons other than love, commitment, or because they truly want to be together forever.

In some faiths today there are still arranged marriages, and that boggles my mind - families deciding when their children are hardly out of the cradle, who their life partner is going to be, just doesn't sit well with me - but then that's not my culture (thank goodness!)

And then there's marriage for the sake of convenience, which makes a mockery of the whole thing anyway. I've heard of people getting married in order to get green cards to work and live in the States, for example, or to get passports or citizenship of another country when there's no other way. I've also heard of people marrying simply so that one can "inherit" the other's pension payments. In those cases the"little piece of paper" is extremely important to those who have their reasons for doing it.

I wonder if the believers on here know whether or not Adam and Eve were married?? (tongue in cheek!!) -

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We've been invited to a gay wedding soon, and I'm really looking forward to going along and wishing a very special couple all the best for a very happy future together. It's going to be an awesome occasion and a very happy one, for sure.



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10/4/2009, 3:17 am Link to this post Send e-mail to   Send PM to Blog
 
Morwen Oronor Profile
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Re: Marriage and Commitment


I do enjoy the celebration of marriage and I like the concept of a permanent commitment, what I don't like is the involvement of church or state in the commitment process.
I would like to see all societies work the way ours does in that only as far as personal insurance policies are concerned, such as retirement insurance, there is no real need for people to be 'married'. Merely nominating the other person as your 'life partner' is enough to ensure that they are regarded as your 'next of kin'.
And because we all have separate tax commitments, no matter whether we are married or not, there is no tax benefit from being being married or not being married.
My husband who's a bit of an expert on retirement insurance tells me that if you nominate someone as a beneficiary on your retirement policy, because of our Constitution, the insurance company is not allowed to disherit the 'partner' unless there is an existing wife/husband and dependent children but then the court will decide on the merits or demerits of the case. But under all normal conditions, the 'piece of paper' makes absolutely no change to your status, unless you are under-18 in which case it causes you to attain majority. But that's the only other benefit.
I love our Constitution's liberalism
10/4/2009, 3:34 am Link to this post Send PM to Blog
 
Petal Alderin Profile
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Re: Marriage and Commitment


Insurance beneficiaries are slightly different ... in some companies where there is a pension plan, the pension dies along with the person who worked there and contributed equally compared to the company contributions. But other companies have widow pensions which allow the spouse of the deceased to still receive a portion of the original monthly pension, and what I meant was that I've heard of some people marrying in later life just so that the wife or husband as the case may be, can receive a little extra every month.
And in some companies this continues even if the widow or widower remarries. I know someone who was widowed at the age of 42 and received a pension from her husband's company each month - less than he would have had, but still a little something. Some years later she remarried, and the original pension didn't fall away - in fact she still receives it today, along with regular increases. Okay in her case she was married to him from the start and didn't just get the piece of paper to get the pension, but I use this example to illustrate that a pension doesn't necessarily disappear when the main contributor dies. I think a lot depends on the employer. Some have it tied up, and others are a lot more generous!!
I also know someone who divorced her husband and then remarried him when he was in hospital, on his deathbed, in order that she could receive the ongoing pension benefits. This was strangely enough at his insistence, not hers - but it was still a "marriage of convenience for financial reasons".
And yes, we have the best constitution in the whole world here, without doubt!!

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10/4/2009, 3:46 am Link to this post Send e-mail to   Send PM to Blog
 
Morwen Oronor Profile
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Re: Marriage and Commitment


I think you can stipulate at the time of retirement. You can opt to have all your benefits converted into a pension, or one-third (maximum) paid to you in cash and the rest into a lifetime pension, or the rest paid to you for 10 years absolutely (in which case if you die before 10 years your wife/husband gets the full benefit until the 10th anniversary, and then reduced to a widow's pension, or you can take a slightly reduced pension with a widow's pension for your wife/husband. This is the one that most people go for.
Incidentally, if the main beneficiary is single and dies before the 10th anniversary, the other dependents, i.e. children get the full pension until the 10th anniversary.
This according to my husband.
It's a combination of what the pension fund rules are and what options you make at the time of retirement.
I think that marrying someone just for the money is horrible.
10/4/2009, 4:46 am Link to this post Send PM to Blog
 
Petal Alderin Profile
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Re: Marriage and Commitment


It's worse than horrible - it's immoral and possibly "an intention to commit fraud" I would think.
But it does happen!
Similarly, people get murdered by spouses or husbands/wives arrange contract killers to claim life insurance money ...
Sick world huh? And then people sweat the small stuff, like whether two people of the same gender ought to be living together or not. Beats me!

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Pastor Rick Profile
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Re: Marriage and Commitment


quote:

Petal Alderin wrote:
I wonder if the believers on here know whether or not Adam and Eve were married?? (tongue in cheek!!) -

 emoticon emoticon
 



hehehe... Genesis 2:24-25
- Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.
- And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed.

Yes they were emoticon

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10/7/2009, 11:08 am Link to this post Send e-mail to   Send PM to Blog
 
Petal Alderin Profile
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Re: Marriage and Commitment


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Aha but they didn't have a piece of paper Rick!

 emoticon emoticon emoticon emoticon

(Just teasing you!)

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