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Kaunisto Profile
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Religion and schools


Once again the battle fires up in Europe, this time in Italy.

]Italians outraged as European court rules against crucifixes


While I generally oppose ridiculous extremes (in this case the decision in France to ban students from wearing any religious symbols), removing crusifixes from schools sounds fair enough.

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11/5/2009, 2:33 am Link to this post Send e-mail to   Send PM to
 
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Re: Religion and schools


I think all religious symbols should be removed from all schools. To me religion is, like sex, personal, and should be kept in the home.
If you're going to teach kids mythology, then teach them all mythology and explain to them that it's just ancient belief and not based in fact.
However, I'm not against kids wearing whatever they want to wear to school, within reason of course. I hate kids being made to conform to stupid school uniforms and idiotic dress codes, like not being allowed to wear their hair hanging down or to have it long if they are boys.
And if a kid wants to express themselves by wearing a crucifix around their neck, then ok, but don't display the crucifix inside the school building.
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Re: Religion and schools


I am against the removal of anything that is part of ones identity. To expect anyone, especially children, to give up part of who they are or want to be is the height of stupidity and can only lead to trouble over the long run.

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11/10/2009, 12:22 pm Link to this post Send e-mail to   Send PM to Blog
 
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Re: Religion and schools


There's a difference between individual expression and forcing an idea upon the impressionable masses. Wearing a crucifix around one's neck should be allowed. Hanging a crucifix on the wall of a public, tax-funded school, should not.

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11/13/2009, 1:24 am Link to this post Send e-mail to   Send PM to Blog
 
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Re: Religion and schools


Well put - I agree! emoticon emoticon

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Re: Religion and schools


So do I. Very well put.
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Re: Religion and schools


Thanks. emoticon

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Re: Religion and schools


Doesn't the removal of items also force ones ideas on impressionable masses? People will always identify with a group and the idea that removing symbols of cultural or historical identity will somehow solve a perceived problem is forgetting that the converse is also true. Take away all symbolism and you find the majority of the people suffering from a sense of loss and depression which is why you see people "decorating" their personal space both at home and work. I'll admit you can go overboard in both directions though and this should not be a matter of law but simple good taste and common sense.

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11/15/2009, 11:42 pm Link to this post Send e-mail to   Send PM to Blog
 
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Re: Religion and schools


Very true.
One of the reasons we have school uniforms is to stop the children in schools wearing symbols that identify them with a group for instance all the children who are into heavy-metal music would dress in black and wear metal all over themselves and the 'Ivy-leaguers' would dress in more formal clothes.
So to prevent this, our education department determined that if everyone has to wear the school uniform then there won't be a 'gang' element within schools.
Of course this doesn't happen because kids find ways to wear the uniform that identifies them with each other. Some girls will roll their tennis socks down to below their ankles to show off more of their legs, thereby being 'cool' while others will pull their socks up high to identify with another group and so on.
The teachers then waste time telling kids to tuck shirts in, pull up their ties, pull their rolled-up skirts out of the wasteband, Pull up their socks or fold them down, instead of spending time on the job at hand.
I hate school uniforms. My teacher sons argue with me that the kids like the identity and it's a chance for the school to teach children about codes and dress sense and wearing clothes formally and blah, blah, blah. And of course parents imagine that it's cheaper to dress kids in a uniform than to buy them a new outfit for every day.
One of our private schools has a black jeans and t-shirt uniform and they don't bother with hairstyles and jewellery. The kids can wear the clothes any way they like and with any shoes or accessories they like. This school always achieves the highest 'matric' pass rate in the country with the seniors, every year without exception and the children who go to that school are far more confident and knowledgeable than the ones at any of the other private schools, even though the other schools do very well, you don't get the 'clone' type person coming out of Crawford. You know how the English say you can identify an Eton boy or a Harrow boy, the kids from this school come out of it as individuals who fit in anywhere without the pretensions of kids who come from schools like Michaelhouse for instance.
If I had kids now, that's where I would send them.
One of my great-nephews is about to leave there this month and his younger brother is there in the 8th grade. Both these kids are amazing people and I really believe that school and it's progressive attitude towards everything, not only the dress code has had a big hand in that.
11/16/2009, 12:09 am Link to this post Send PM to Blog
 
Kaunisto Profile
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Re: Religion and schools


Argument is spreading wider:

]Greek Church acts on crucifix ban

(btw I've never heard of that "Helsinki Monitor", can't be very big group)


Pretty much only dress code I ever had (or had to fight) was about not wearing hat in class.

On the other hand I'll have to admit we used to have some religion around, though no crosses on walls.
Just some twenty years ago we even said a short grace ("thank you Jeesus for food") before meal. But back then over 95% of us were Lutherans and the few others christians too, so that could go on until 90's.
Seriously, I'm pretty sure that our school of 300-400 had likely none, but certainly less than five students who weren't christian. Small town, Finland's never had notable religious minorities and that was before people started resigning church - increasing trend last 15 years.

In Finland religion is still a compulsory (if minor) subject in schools. That's Lutheran, Greek Orthodox (largest minority, about 2%) or since 1985 "elämänkatsomustieto", for which I can't come up with a good English phrase so lets just call that philosophy, though that's slightly inaccurate.
OK I just looked it up and Ministry of Education calls it "Ethics", but I'm not sure that's really quite same either.

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