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Lesigner Girl
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Re: Lies
Another excellent point, Mo, and I agree. When a child is acting up, spanking doesn't address the cause of why they are acting up.
Homework was an excellent example. Maybe the teacher is ineffective. Maybe the child can't read the blackboard or hear what the teacher is saying, and just needs to sit closer to the front of the class. Maybe the child doesn't understand the material and needs tutoring. Maybe the child understands it too well and is bored with it, and should be taking advanced courses instead.
If a child is hitting other children, chances are they learned it from being hit themselves. If the parents themselves hadn't resorted to that yet, then perhaps it was daycare, and instead of furthering the abuse by spanking the child yourself, it would be much wiser to investigate that daycare, or simply switch to a new one.
When children are raised in loving and stable homes, where parents are consistent in their praise and firm when they say no, they don't act up like other children do, because they are taught by example.
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9/6/2008, 12:05 pm
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Morwen Oronor
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Location: South Africa
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Re: Lies
Exactly, children brought up in a stable, consistent, loving, secure environment are not troublesome.
And if they do act up there usually is something other than mere naughtiness causing the problem, as in your examples.
For instance, a boy my son tutors has dyslexia, as a result, he can't do algebra, this is causing him to fail mathematics. I explained to him to change the letters in equations to something he understands, or simply to remember that the letters signify something that is either unknown or something that is being explained: And to look at what the problem is that needs solving and also to try to apply mathematics to everyday activities. He understood what I was saying because he said like in story sums, don't concentrate on the story but on the thing you are trying to find out. This shows me that the teacher is not doing is job, he should be telling the whole class this instead of trying to get them to fathom it out by themselves.
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9/6/2008, 12:18 pm
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Lesigner Girl
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Re: Lies
I have a hunch that a big part of the "spare the rod, spoil the child" belief stems from the belief that we are all born of a sinful nature. Instead of looking at natural causes, they believe the child is being influenced by an evil outside force. In Christianity, that force would be Satan and/or his demons, while I'm guessing that other mythologies probably have their equivalents.
For those who don't believe in evil outside forces, they might simply spank or beat out of anger, or be convinced that spanking is effective simply because so many people claim it is, without really knowing where that claim comes from.
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9/6/2008, 1:32 pm
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Petal Alderin
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Re: Lies
I've always struggled to understand how a newborn baby can be a sinner. So perfect, so innocent, and a sinner?
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9/6/2008, 1:35 pm
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Morwen Oronor
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Re: Lies
A religious thing, something about everybody being 'born into sin'. It seems to me that old-fashioned tradition is always based on the assumption of 'wrong' rather than 'innocent until proven guilty'. I always assume that kids act up or misbehave out of some reason other than that they are 'bad'. Well-brought up, secure, well-disciplined kids don't behave badly. Like dogs, kids like to please the people they look up to, if they don't it's because the adults are behaving badly. A case of teaching people how to treat you, if you behave badly, the children around you will as well.
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9/7/2008, 2:19 am
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Lesigner Girl
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Re: Lies
If you hit them, they will hit. But if you are courteous, they will learn to be courteous. The key to teaching them respect is to show them respect, toward them as well as toward others.
If you set firm guidelines and stick with them, they will know what is expected of them. If you tell them no, but give into tantrums, that will only teach them that throwing tantrums will help them get their way. But if you never give into those tantrums, they will see that it doesn't work, and stop throwing tantrums. The key here is consistency.
Simply put, children learn by example, and this applies to more than just the two things I've mentioned above.
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9/7/2008, 2:06 pm
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Petal Alderin
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Re: Lies
Children need lots of love and a little discipline, but not hitting to discipline them. I think one of the most important things is constancy, as you say Lesa - and also that a threat is a threat, and a promise is a promise where kids are concerned.
If you " threaten" a child that he will not be allowed to watch TV unless he tidies his room, for example, you should carry that through. If he does what he's asked to do, then fine - let him watch TV. And give him a hug and praise him every time he does something you ask, and let him know he is appreciated.
And if you promise that he can do whatever or have whatever, then you must make good on that promise.
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9/7/2008, 2:14 pm
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Lesigner Girl
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Re: Lies
I agree 100% with that.
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9/7/2008, 2:22 pm
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Morwen Oronor
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Re: Lies
I found that threats didn't work because there were simply too many of them for me to remember which threats I made to which child, so instead of threats I would offer rewards.
Like I said above. I'd go to the video shop on Friday mornings, get some movies for them and they used to invite friends over.
I'd get snacks, popcorn, crisps etc. so that Friday afternoons became a big fun thing.
They knew this and came to see it as their special day. On Thursday afternoon, I'd make them go over all the work for the weekend (they didn't often have homework on Fridays, instead the teachers used to hand out work on Thursday for Monday). But we'd get rooms tidied, laundry done, everything ready for the big Friday afternoon fun thing.
Another thing we had was Sunday lunch at a restaurant, when the kids were little. We used to dress them up and take them to family steakhouses and so on. We never had a problem with bad behavior after one Sunday they started horsing around at the table and we cancelled the meal, and took them home. We explained that sort of behavior wasn't acceptable and if they couldn't behave then maybe they should be left at home. It never happened again. People used to ask us how we got them to sit still and 'behave like gentlemen' and we said, very simply that bad behavior gets you left at home with a sitter.
It isn't necessary to 'discipline' kids, you simply have to show them the right behavior by behaving well yourself and rewarding good behavior. If you throw tantrums when you don't get your own way, then don't be surprised if your kid does as well.
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9/8/2008, 1:47 am
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Petal Alderin
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Re: Lies
Perhaps discipline was the wrong word to use Mo, I think we both think the same way when it comes to the crunch and have the same feelings about raising children.
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9/8/2008, 1:57 am
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