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Morwen Oronor Profile
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The 10 Commandments


Seeing that we have gotten into discussing religion and the Bible, and that we are being asked by other members to explain the basis of our morality, let's examine the basis of theirs, i.e.


Exodus 20:2–17 and Deuteronomy 5:6–21

quote:


2 I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery;

3 Do not have any other gods before me.

4 You shall not make for yourself an idol, whether in the form of anything that is in heaven above, or that is on the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.

5 You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I the Lord your God am a jealous God, punishing children for the iniquity of parents, to the third and the fourth generation of those who reject me,

6 but showing steadfast love to the thousandth generation of those who love me and keep my commandments.

7 You shall not make wrongful use of the name of the Lord your God, for the Lord will not acquit anyone who misuses his name.

8 Remember the Sabbath day and keep it holy.

9 For six days you shall labour and do all your work.

10 But the seventh day is a Sabbath to the Lord your God; you shall not do any work—you, your son or your daughter, your male or female slave, your livestock, or the alien resident in your towns.

11 For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but rested the seventh day; therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and consecrated it.

12 Honor your father and your mother, so that your days may be long in the land that the Lord your God is giving you.

13 You shall not murder.

14 You shall not commit adultery.

15 You shall not steal.

16 You shall not bear false witness against your neighbour.

17 You shall not covet your neighbour’s house; you shall not covet your neighbour’s wife, or male or female slave, or ox, or donkey, or anything that belongs to your neighbour.



Before I make any comments, let's see what the rest of you have to say about these 'laws'.
9/2/2008, 11:22 am Link to this post Send PM to Blog
 
Petal Alderin Profile
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Re: The 10 Commandments


I don't believe that anyone, believer or not, can live up to these "rules". And again, interpretation comes into them ...

As I said in another thread - I don't care what other people think or whether they consider I'm a "good" person or not. I try to be kind and considerate and keep the laws of the land because that's the sort of person I am, but we're all human and we all fail at some stage. These are very high expectations if taken literally.

Even Christians don't keep the Ten Commandments to the letter because they just don't work in a modern world.

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9/2/2008, 12:39 pm Link to this post Send e-mail to   Send PM to Blog
 
Erika E Profile
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Re: The 10 Commandments


Petal I think you are a wonderful caring loyal person and I have got that much from just the boards. But that will do me. emoticon

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9/2/2008, 12:40 pm Link to this post  
 
Morwen Oronor Profile
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Re: The 10 Commandments


I agree with you completely that they aren't appropriate in a modern world, they might have been applicable in 5000 BCE when the wrath of the gods was something to be feared but in 2008 when we can reason and work our lives out for ourselves.
Besides there are more than enough laws in the country, I don't still need to bother with the ones of Israel 7 or more millenia ago.
9/2/2008, 12:43 pm Link to this post Send PM to Blog
 
Petal Alderin Profile
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Re: The 10 Commandments


Thank you Erika, you're very sweet. I think religion is more the way you behave every day towards others, than going to church on a Sunday and then being hypocritical and nasty to people for the rest of the week!



 emoticon

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9/2/2008, 12:45 pm Link to this post Send e-mail to   Send PM to Blog
 
Order ofMelchizedek Profile
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Re: The 10 Commandments


quote:

I don't believe that anyone, believer or not, can live up to these "rules".

Exactly!

Galatians 3:24
So the law was put in charge to lead us to Christ that we might be justified by faith.


 
quote:

And again, interpretation comes into them ...


Is there another way to interpret, "You shall not murder"?

quote:

I try to be kind and considerate and keep the laws of the land because that's the sort of person I am,


The Bible tells us that we should.

Romans 13:1
Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God.


quote:

These are very high expectations if taken literally.


What other way is there?

Perfection is the standard.

Matthew 5:48
Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.


How do you acheive it?

Colossians 1:28
We proclaim him, admonishing and teaching everyone with all wisdom, so that we may present everyone perfect in Christ.


Romans 3:28
For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from observing the law.


quote:

Even Christians don't keep the Ten Commandments to the letter because they just don't work in a modern world.


It's not that they "don't work", it's that we are all sinful in God's eyes. Which ones do you think don't work in the modern world?
quote:

It's all nonsense to judge people by your own standards,


Most definately! That's why we use God's standard, instead of our own.

I'm sure you're all very good people by man's standards. But that's not the standard we'll be held to on Judgment Day. We'll be held to God's moral standards, and those are revealed to us in the Ten Commandments.



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I only fear that I don’t have enough time left, to tell the world that there’s no time left. -G1C

9/2/2008, 1:08 pm Link to this post Send PM to
 
Morwen Oronor Profile
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Re: The 10 Commandments


Even looking at them from a historical point of view:

quote:

I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery;

3 Do not have any other gods before me.



Ok I can understand that a group of people are being told that they have to worship this one god. That's fine. But if there is only one god, who is Jesus? Christians worship him and give him all manner of names, so he must be a god? This is was the basis of the argument that gave Imperial authority to the Catholic Church. The Catholics said "Jesus and God are one and the same", the Gnostics said "Jesus is God's creation". If you accept the Gnostic view, that immediately negates the idea of workshipping one God. Who made the decision that they are one? The people who were giving Constantine the most power and who were most likely to take the whole responsibility for religion off his shoulders, so to cover their asses, with the whole idea of 'one God' they declared that Jesus and God are the same. So who is God, Jehovah or Jesus?

I'm sure I'll get a long theological discourse on this but it just doesn't make any sense, and knowing that this decision was made under the circumstances that I know they were made under, I have to discard it as nonsense. There are now two beings that are worshipped, God and Jesos. So this doesn't apply anymore.

Then the whole 'land of Egypt thing' is bullshit, the Jews were no more slaves in Egypt than they wandered around in the desert for 40 years. The Egyptians wrote everything down in the same way that the Romans did, and they have nothing about Jews, slaves, plagues, the king's son suddenly dying, frogs, lice, fleas or whatever else the Jews claim supposedly forced them to leave Egypt. What we do know from history is that a group of people arrived from the 'sea' at the same time that the whole of the Near East was invaded by Indo-Europeans, these people were the Dorians who created Sparta and the people who integrated with the Semitic people of Assyria and so on. The Egyptians called them the 'Sea People" and this is what caused a mass exodus of lots of people out of Egypt but it didn't take them 40 years to walk across from Memphis to Jerusalem, it would at the most have taken them 10 days to a month.
9/2/2008, 1:12 pm Link to this post Send PM to Blog
 
Petal Alderin Profile
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Re: The 10 Commandments


So if I inadvertently step on an ant I'm a murderer. And believe me, I kill spiders regularly. People were always slaying others in Biblical times, offering sacrifices - and told to do that by prophets and by God himself.

quote:

Romans 13:1
Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God.



Well I don't know - I'm rather sorry he's chosen to establish some of our authorities here, and with the upcoming US elections I think the chosen ones are not the best either. Sorry to sound flippant but I'm putting a modern stance on these.

quote:

Perfection is the standard.



It's well known that none of us is, or ever will be, perfect - we're human. And in modern times I don't think we really strive to be perfect ... we accept each other as we are, faults and all, if we care about each other.



quote:

I'm sure you're all very good people by man's standards. But that's not the standard we'll be held to on Judgment Day. We'll be held to God's moral standards, and those are revealed to us in the Ten Commandments.



We simply won't agree on this Mel. I know that! Your God is a judgemental, condemning God to be feared, whereas the one I believe in is loving and forgiving regardless of what I do.

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9/2/2008, 1:18 pm Link to this post Send e-mail to   Send PM to Blog
 
Erika E Profile
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Re: The 10 Commandments


God forgives us our sins. If not then I am going to hell. emoticon because I know I have sinned.

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9/2/2008, 1:28 pm Link to this post  
 
Petal Alderin Profile
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Re: The 10 Commandments


Of course we've all "sinned" Erika in the religious sense - we're human. And I don't think you're going to hell at all ... as I said, Mel seems to have a very different view of his God from the way I look at it. And he's obviously terrified of going to hell, but I don't believe in hell so I don't think any of us will end up there! Hell is right here on earth if you look at all the people who suffer daily and are starving, and all the injustices in the world and the natural disasters - life is very cruel, and I'm sure those who suffer worst of all here have all sinner - they steal to feed their families for example, and I would too if my kids were starving, make no error.
Surely a loving, father-like God wouldn't expect his children to suffer on earth and also after death? I have lots of questions about this, believe me!

But I know you are also a loving, caring, genuine and honest woman - don't let all this stuff upset you, please! Mel is on some sort of mission to convert all of us to his way of thinking and it ain't gonna happen!!

Hugs for you!

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9/2/2008, 1:34 pm Link to this post Send e-mail to   Send PM to Blog
 


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