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Morwen Oronor
Resident Scholar
Registered: 01-2008
Location: South Africa
Posts: 1743
Karma: 15 (+28/-13)
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Re: How Much?
Believe me these are all people who say the same sort of things you do. When we phoned them up to speak to them, they threw out of request but then didn't stop phoning with pious proseletysing until they were told what to do with themselves in no uncertain terms. Sorry my experience of Christianity has always been, "shut up and listen to me, you are wrong, I am right, you don't know anything, I do and I'll teach you how wrong you are". Yet when the time comes to show kindness, compassion, and charity, the people who really came through were people who do the work without any affiliation to any religion. In fact when they were told about the churches they said the same things I feel about them. Most of the people in charge were, like me, completely cynical about religion but they offered her a roof, and a job in their office, taught her computer skills and encouraged her to move on once she had found a job, with no strings attached. Needless to say, they got a huge donation, not of money, but of clothes, furniture, time, help with work on their facilities that was what they asked for when we asked. I don't like to talk about what I do for charity, but they were very happy with what we gave them.
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10/8/2008, 10:46 pm
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Petal Alderin
Resident Rusharound
Registered: 01-2008
Posts: 968
Karma: 19 (+22/-3)
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Re: How Much?
Some years ago a friend of mine, a staunch church goer, was viciously attacked, repeatedly raped and beaten up by intruders who broke in to her home. She was rushed to hospital immediately afterwards when she managed to raise the alarm, and one of the first things she wanted was to see her priest. He didn't arrive at all but a day or so later a couple of nuns pitched up, showed no sympathy whatsoever, and spent the visit lecturing her on what a bad person she was, basically telling her that she asked for it and that she deserved it.
This on top of her physical and emotional hurting was too much. She's never set foot in a church since.
I for one don't blame her one bit!
I know there are people who claim to be Christians and aren't - but surely those who take up the priesthood or enter the church to formally serve their God should not be this way?
People get hurt by others every day - but these are ordinary people. And yes church officials are human, but it does seem that a lot of them don't have the compassion and understanding of other humans that one would expect of them.
False prophets.
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10/8/2008, 11:27 pm
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Pastor Rick
Administrator
Registered: 07-2005
Location: Texas
Posts: 1900
Karma: 29 (+42/-13)
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Re: How Much?
I cannot answer for or even offer excuses for what other groups do. I know when my church put up a woman while she went cold turkey on drug withdrawal there were some who objected (but being the Pastor is sometimes a good thing) and we did it anyway. It took the woman almost 2 months to really get right if you know what I mean but since then she has moved back to her home town, gotten a high school diploma, gone to trade school and is now a single mom with her son living on her own (no welfare, food stamps or other govt. assistance).
She wrote to me awhile back thanking the church for the "intervention that saved my life." She also told me she has given her life to Christ and is going to a wonderful church in Tennessee now. My church and I don't take the credit, we just did what felt like the right thing to do in Gods eyes and he did the rest
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10/9/2008, 12:12 am
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Order ofMelchizedek
Registered user
Registered: 07-2006
Location: Here I am
Posts: 504
Karma: -2 (+21/-23)
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Re: How Much?
quote: Morwen Oronor wrote:
Yet when the time comes to show kindness, compassion, and charity, the people who really came through were people who do the work without any affiliation to any religion.
Again, I know you put your own spin on things, but that's simply not true, Morwen. Maybe you've got an experience to share, but look at the stats. Who is it that adopts more children than any other group - Christians. Who is it that is first to help when a disaster strikes - Christians. What does the Bible teach?
James 2:13-17
What good is it, my brothers, if a man claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save him? Suppose a brother or sister is without clothes and daily food. If one of you says to him, "Go, I wish you well; keep warm and well fed," but does nothing about his physical needs, what good is it? In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.
If all that you state is true and nothing is left out, those were not Christians that you were seeking help from.
And to deny Christ because of a bad experience with a bunch of hypocrites is a fatal mistake that you will pay for eternally.
quote: False prophets.
Exactly.
--- Lord, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I’m not scared 'cause You’re holding my breath.
I only fear that I don’t have enough time left, to tell the world that there’s no time left. -G1C
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10/9/2008, 12:43 am
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Morwen Oronor
Resident Scholar
Registered: 01-2008
Location: South Africa
Posts: 1743
Karma: 15 (+28/-13)
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Re: How Much?
I'm always pleased to hear when churches actually do good.
My experience in the communities that I've lived and worked in has always been very different.
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10/9/2008, 1:16 am
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Lesigner Girl
Administrator
Head of Runboard staff
Registered: 11-2005
Posts: 634
Karma: 13 (+15/-2)
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Re: How Much?
quote: Again, I know you put your own spin on things, but that's simply not true, Morwen. Maybe you've got an experience to share, but look at the stats. Who is it that adopts more children than any other group - Christians. Who is it that is first to help when a disaster strikes - Christians. What does the Bible teach?
Of course. It's pretty difficult for 25% of the U.S. population to give more than the other 75%. Further, many non-religious people donate through religious charities, simply because there aren't enough well-known secular charities in this country. Once more people leave Christianity, however, I expect a rise in secular charities, and a decline in religious charities.
Rick, good on ya for all you do for your community. My experience hasn't been as extreme as Mo's and Petal's, but "true" Christians like you really do seem to be in the minority.
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10/10/2008, 7:52 pm
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Morwen Oronor
Resident Scholar
Registered: 01-2008
Location: South Africa
Posts: 1743
Karma: 15 (+28/-13)
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Re: How Much?
I agree.
At my graduation yesterday, I sat next to a woman who graduated summa cum laude with Bible Studies and the Biblical world as her two major subjects. She is a third grade teacher who came from England with an English qualification but had to upgrade to a South African one. While she was studying, she was allowed to teach and now that she has her degree she says she is about to retire.
When I asked her whether she would continue with Biblical studies and possibly go into theology, she said that she would never work for the church except from the point of 'outreach' programs because she didn't agree with the religion but found the whole biblical history fascinating, especially because, having studied she can't see how anyone can see it for being anything other than history. Her words, not mine.
I do agree that churches do a lot of good when it comes to charity, but in SA you don't need to be involved with churches to be involved with charities. One of our biggest is the Nelson Mandela Children's Fund. It is managed by the trustees of Nelson Mandela's estate and was formed when he was president and because he had to accept a large salary for the position but chose to take only what he needed for his personal use and gave the rest to this fund.
All the proceeds of concerts that are staged in his name go to this fund, which does not have religious affiliations, and if there are any religious bodies donating to the fund, it is purely from the point of view of a desire to be allowed to keep religion in the country in the face of ever-growing secularism among South Africans.
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10/10/2008, 11:51 pm
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Order ofMelchizedek
Registered user
Registered: 07-2006
Location: Here I am
Posts: 504
Karma: -2 (+21/-23)
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Re: How Much?
quote: Of course. It's pretty difficult for 25% of the U.S. population to give more than the other 75%. Further, many non-religious people donate through religious charities, simply because there aren't enough well-known secular charities in this country. Once more people leave Christianity, however, I expect a rise in secular charities, and a decline in religious charities.
Ah, so it brings us back to the first post in this thread - the way is indeed narrow, and few will find it. Study and head knowledge will not necessarily make a Christian. Going to church won't make one, either.
So, as "more people leave Christianity" we get closer to the end times, for it was already written, long ago.
2 Thess 2:3
--- The cynics and the saints, the famous and unnamed, one day will all fall before You, but I'm gonna bow today... --RSJ
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10/11/2008, 1:11 am
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Petal Alderin
Resident Rusharound
Registered: 01-2008
Posts: 968
Karma: 19 (+22/-3)
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Re: How Much?
Amen to that.
We're all coming closer to the end time, each and every day.
We're born, we live, we die. Fact.
Last edited by Petal Alderin, 10/11/2008, 3:39 am
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10/11/2008, 3:37 am
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