Religion and schools https://btimeandagain.runboard.com/t416 Runboard| Religion and schools en-us Fri, 29 Mar 2024 10:59:32 +0000 Fri, 29 Mar 2024 10:59:32 +0000 https://www.runboard.com/ rssfeeds_managingeditor@runboard.com (Runboard.com RSS feeds managing editor) rssfeeds_webmaster@runboard.com (Runboard.com RSS feeds webmaster) akBBS 60 Re: Religion and schoolshttps://btimeandagain.runboard.com/p7374,from=rss#post7374https://btimeandagain.runboard.com/p7374,from=rss#post7374And the girls who had short hair how did they wear a snood?nondisclosed_email@example.com (Morwen Oronor)Tue, 17 Nov 2009 12:16:56 +0000 Re: Religion and schoolshttps://btimeandagain.runboard.com/p7373,from=rss#post7373https://btimeandagain.runboard.com/p7373,from=rss#post7373It would be so boring if we always agreed on everything! I was also always being called up at daily assembly to go and do something with my hair, which has always been very fine and untamable, so I know how you felt about that one! Short nails never bothered me at school because I played sport and it was easier to handle a hockey stick or a netball etc without long nails. The only part of the uniform I hated (apart from the dreadful Panama hat!) was the white dresses (exactly like the summer uniform dress but all white) and snoods that we had to wear on Founders Day and for prize-giving and that sort of thing. The dress wasn't the issue - it was the wretched snood that I hated with a passion! And of course I'm talking well over 40 years ago so we also had to wear suspender belts and thick lisle stockings and that was also the bane of my life!! Tights or pantihose weren't even invented in those days lol ... stockings came in pairs, one for each leg!!   nondisclosed_email@example.com (Petal Alderin)Tue, 17 Nov 2009 09:06:05 +0000 Re: Religion and schoolshttps://btimeandagain.runboard.com/p7371,from=rss#post7371https://btimeandagain.runboard.com/p7371,from=rss#post7371That's ok Petal, we can't agree on everything. I just hate the whole militaristic element of the school uniform thing. I remember when I was in matric, we asked for a 'civvies' day and finally the head gave in and said that only the seniors were allowed that one day to dress in their own clothes and of course with provisos about decency etc. I loved it. I always carried a brief case to school anyway and I've always hated girly handbags etc. So I had a day when I could express myself the way I would dress for the next nearly 40 years of working in different environments. It was so funny seeing all may classmates dressed in their prettiest party dresses with handbags and so on, I wore my favourite skirt and shirt with high heels, stockings and of course my briefcase. I loved it. I wanted to dress like that forever. The day I wrote my final exam, the first thing I did was make a huge bonfire of the school uniform. And then to make things worse, I became a nurse and had to wear a uniform all over again. But that was different because I could grow my nails (to a degree), style my hair and make the uniform look like a designer outfit rather than just the horrible starched overblown thing it was. At school I used to get sent off to comb out my hair and I was always being lectured about my long nails, hell I hated it. What did my nails have to do with how I did my homework, I could never understand that.nondisclosed_email@example.com (Morwen Oronor)Tue, 17 Nov 2009 08:25:44 +0000 Re: Religion and schoolshttps://btimeandagain.runboard.com/p7369,from=rss#post7369https://btimeandagain.runboard.com/p7369,from=rss#post7369Unfortunately home schooling wasn't allowed way back when in my school days! But I do think it's a wonderful idea, depending on the characters, personalities, and abilities of the kids concerned, and as long as the children also get to socialize with their peer groups outside of the home environment .. and of course there is the problem of sports participation etc for those children who are also energetic and keen on sport or other extra murals. It's fine for an out-and-out academic but can also make the children under-confident in situations where they have to be with others because it can make them very insular. All the kids in uniform that are at our local schools seem to conform well to the rules - haven't seen any rolled up waistbands, shorter skirts, rolled down socks etc. They all look reasonably neat and tidy apart from shirts hanging out sometimes which happens anyway. I'm with Jeff on this one, lol!nondisclosed_email@example.com (Petal Alderin)Tue, 17 Nov 2009 07:33:10 +0000 Re: Religion and schoolshttps://btimeandagain.runboard.com/p7368,from=rss#post7368https://btimeandagain.runboard.com/p7368,from=rss#post7368Yes, we have that problem here as well, despite the school uniforms. This is why sensible people choose to home school.nondisclosed_email@example.com (Morwen Oronor)Tue, 17 Nov 2009 03:59:33 +0000 Re: Religion and schoolshttps://btimeandagain.runboard.com/p7364,from=rss#post7364https://btimeandagain.runboard.com/p7364,from=rss#post7364The other day in news there was a story on Swiss teachers who came to see how thing are done here (as Finland has always done very well on PISA tests). They we're amazed or even shocked by the general lack of order and "discipline". nondisclosed_email@example.com (Kaunisto)Tue, 17 Nov 2009 02:50:33 +0000 Re: Religion and schoolshttps://btimeandagain.runboard.com/p7362,from=rss#post7362https://btimeandagain.runboard.com/p7362,from=rss#post7362I just hate conformity and children being made to look like militaristic clones. And I don't see what hairstyles and show styles have to do with discipline and being able to do schoolwork. I remember having a row with a teacher from a girls' school when she whined about the girls who came from the townships wrapping themselves up in blankets when they left home at 4 a.m. to get to the school in the winter. She said all the crap about respecting the uniform and whatever, I told her she was full of it, that children need to be warm before they need to look like little automatons. I think it's nonsense. I agree with a basic dress code, like Crawfords have, but not with the silly gymslip and black tights and lace up shoes rubbish. I know some people who are home-schooling their kids, and it happens that I bumped into them on Saturday. The boy has longish hair - far longer than a school would allow and pretend tattoos on his arms. When I chatted to them, I was amazed at how well-behaved and well-mannered the kids were, and how respectful towards him and us. Certainly a lot better behaved than some of the kids we see with their uniforms worn in a way to annoy the teachers. I think that if kids are allowed a little self-expression in the clothes they wear to school, they actually behave with more respect than when they spend their time messing about with the uniform. And the fashion-show thing, they do that anyway with the socks and the skirt-folding. Kids will be mean to each other no matter what they wear to school. Petal, believe me Jeff agrees with you. I'm just a rebel. I hate being told what I have to wear.nondisclosed_email@example.com (Morwen Oronor)Mon, 16 Nov 2009 10:40:08 +0000 Re: Religion and schoolshttps://btimeandagain.runboard.com/p7360,from=rss#post7360https://btimeandagain.runboard.com/p7360,from=rss#post7360I rather liked school uniform - firstly because everyone was dressed in the same way, you could easily recognize pupils from another school, there was no competition to out-fashion the next person, and I did feel that it inspired pride in your own school and wearing the uniform made us all conscious of the fact that we were representing our school when we were seen in public. In our day though, school rules were very much more strict than they are today. We weren't permitted to wear sweaters in winter without a blazer on as well, in public - and we always had to be neat and tidy. No jewellery was allowed at all except for a watch. And definitely definitely no eating or drinking soft drinks (or heaven forbid anything else stronger!!) while walking in the street in uniform or off the school premises. The school our boys went to had equally strict uniform rules. When a German exchange student came to stay with us for six months at the age of 16 and attended the same school, I bought her a uniform because of course she had to comply with the rules. At first she bucked and kicked and screamed and said it was stupid and she refused to wear it - but of course she had to! Within three days she came back and stated that she thought it was actually a really good thing and she wished they had uniforms back home in Wuppertal.nondisclosed_email@example.com (Petal Alderin)Mon, 16 Nov 2009 04:59:39 +0000 Re: Religion and schoolshttps://btimeandagain.runboard.com/p7354,from=rss#post7354https://btimeandagain.runboard.com/p7354,from=rss#post7354We have no religious instruction in schools, except of course the church schools do have religious classes for their on religion but it's not compulsory like it was in my day. And all our science classes include only evolution. No science teacher would be allowed to teach creation or 'intelligent design'. Creation etc, is taught as part of the religious teaching in church schools. And our school uniform policy forbids the wearing of anything that isn't part of the uniform, so no headscarves and no crosses, if you want to wear them, you have to go to the church school. We have a 'Indian' school near us, the girls wear white uniforms with and the Muslim girls wear headscarves.nondisclosed_email@example.com (Morwen Oronor)Mon, 16 Nov 2009 03:25:35 +0000 Re: Religion and schoolshttps://btimeandagain.runboard.com/p7352,from=rss#post7352https://btimeandagain.runboard.com/p7352,from=rss#post7352Argument is spreading wider: Greek Church acts on crucifix ban (btw I've never heard of that "Helsinki Monitor", can't be very big group) Pretty much only dress code I ever had (or had to fight) was about not wearing hat in class. On the other hand I'll have to admit we used to have some religion around, though no crosses on walls. Just some twenty years ago we even said a short grace ("thank you Jeesus for food") before meal. But back then over 95% of us were Lutherans and the few others christians too, so that could go on until 90's. Seriously, I'm pretty sure that our school of 300-400 had likely none, but certainly less than five students who weren't christian. Small town, Finland's never had notable religious minorities and that was before people started resigning church - increasing trend last 15 years. In Finland religion is still a compulsory (if minor) subject in schools. That's Lutheran, Greek Orthodox (largest minority, about 2%) or since 1985 "elämänkatsomustieto", for which I can't come up with a good English phrase so lets just call that philosophy, though that's slightly inaccurate. OK I just looked it up and Ministry of Education calls it "Ethics", but I'm not sure that's really quite same either.nondisclosed_email@example.com (Kaunisto)Mon, 16 Nov 2009 01:54:46 +0000 Re: Religion and schoolshttps://btimeandagain.runboard.com/p7348,from=rss#post7348https://btimeandagain.runboard.com/p7348,from=rss#post7348Very true. One of the reasons we have school uniforms is to stop the children in schools wearing symbols that identify them with a group for instance all the children who are into heavy-metal music would dress in black and wear metal all over themselves and the 'Ivy-leaguers' would dress in more formal clothes. So to prevent this, our education department determined that if everyone has to wear the school uniform then there won't be a 'gang' element within schools. Of course this doesn't happen because kids find ways to wear the uniform that identifies them with each other. Some girls will roll their tennis socks down to below their ankles to show off more of their legs, thereby being 'cool' while others will pull their socks up high to identify with another group and so on. The teachers then waste time telling kids to tuck shirts in, pull up their ties, pull their rolled-up skirts out of the wasteband, Pull up their socks or fold them down, instead of spending time on the job at hand. I hate school uniforms. My teacher sons argue with me that the kids like the identity and it's a chance for the school to teach children about codes and dress sense and wearing clothes formally and blah, blah, blah. And of course parents imagine that it's cheaper to dress kids in a uniform than to buy them a new outfit for every day. One of our private schools has a black jeans and t-shirt uniform and they don't bother with hairstyles and jewellery. The kids can wear the clothes any way they like and with any shoes or accessories they like. This school always achieves the highest 'matric' pass rate in the country with the seniors, every year without exception and the children who go to that school are far more confident and knowledgeable than the ones at any of the other private schools, even though the other schools do very well, you don't get the 'clone' type person coming out of Crawford. You know how the English say you can identify an Eton boy or a Harrow boy, the kids from this school come out of it as individuals who fit in anywhere without the pretensions of kids who come from schools like Michaelhouse for instance. If I had kids now, that's where I would send them. One of my great-nephews is about to leave there this month and his younger brother is there in the 8th grade. Both these kids are amazing people and I really believe that school and it's progressive attitude towards everything, not only the dress code has had a big hand in that.nondisclosed_email@example.com (Morwen Oronor)Mon, 16 Nov 2009 00:09:30 +0000 Re: Religion and schoolshttps://btimeandagain.runboard.com/p7346,from=rss#post7346https://btimeandagain.runboard.com/p7346,from=rss#post7346Doesn't the removal of items also force ones ideas on impressionable masses? People will always identify with a group and the idea that removing symbols of cultural or historical identity will somehow solve a perceived problem is forgetting that the converse is also true. Take away all symbolism and you find the majority of the people suffering from a sense of loss and depression which is why you see people "decorating" their personal space both at home and work. I'll admit you can go overboard in both directions though and this should not be a matter of law but simple good taste and common sense. nondisclosed_email@example.com (Pastor Rick)Sun, 15 Nov 2009 23:42:16 +0000 Re: Religion and schoolshttps://btimeandagain.runboard.com/p7336,from=rss#post7336https://btimeandagain.runboard.com/p7336,from=rss#post7336Thanks. nondisclosed_email@example.com (Lesigner Girl)Fri, 13 Nov 2009 21:55:05 +0000 Re: Religion and schoolshttps://btimeandagain.runboard.com/p7322,from=rss#post7322https://btimeandagain.runboard.com/p7322,from=rss#post7322So do I. Very well put.nondisclosed_email@example.com (Morwen Oronor)Fri, 13 Nov 2009 07:39:05 +0000 Re: Religion and schoolshttps://btimeandagain.runboard.com/p7319,from=rss#post7319https://btimeandagain.runboard.com/p7319,from=rss#post7319Well put - I agree! nondisclosed_email@example.com (Petal Alderin)Fri, 13 Nov 2009 02:18:41 +0000 Re: Religion and schoolshttps://btimeandagain.runboard.com/p7316,from=rss#post7316https://btimeandagain.runboard.com/p7316,from=rss#post7316There's a difference between individual expression and forcing an idea upon the impressionable masses. Wearing a crucifix around one's neck should be allowed. Hanging a crucifix on the wall of a public, tax-funded school, should not.nondisclosed_email@example.com (Lesigner Girl)Fri, 13 Nov 2009 01:24:27 +0000 Re: Religion and schoolshttps://btimeandagain.runboard.com/p7295,from=rss#post7295https://btimeandagain.runboard.com/p7295,from=rss#post7295I am against the removal of anything that is part of ones identity. To expect anyone, especially children, to give up part of who they are or want to be is the height of stupidity and can only lead to trouble over the long run.nondisclosed_email@example.com (Pastor Rick)Tue, 10 Nov 2009 12:22:17 +0000 Re: Religion and schoolshttps://btimeandagain.runboard.com/p7222,from=rss#post7222https://btimeandagain.runboard.com/p7222,from=rss#post7222I think all religious symbols should be removed from all schools. To me religion is, like sex, personal, and should be kept in the home. If you're going to teach kids mythology, then teach them all mythology and explain to them that it's just ancient belief and not based in fact. However, I'm not against kids wearing whatever they want to wear to school, within reason of course. I hate kids being made to conform to stupid school uniforms and idiotic dress codes, like not being allowed to wear their hair hanging down or to have it long if they are boys. And if a kid wants to express themselves by wearing a crucifix around their neck, then ok, but don't display the crucifix inside the school building.nondisclosed_email@example.com (Morwen Oronor)Thu, 05 Nov 2009 04:06:07 +0000 Religion and schoolshttps://btimeandagain.runboard.com/p7221,from=rss#post7221https://btimeandagain.runboard.com/p7221,from=rss#post7221Once again the battle fires up in Europe, this time in Italy. Italians outraged as European court rules against crucifixes While I generally oppose ridiculous extremes (in this case the decision in France to ban students from wearing any religious symbols), removing crusifixes from schools sounds fair enough.nondisclosed_email@example.com (Kaunisto)Thu, 05 Nov 2009 02:33:13 +0000