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Morwen Oronor Profile
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Re: The Accuracy of the Bible


Not terribly wrong those comics.

I found that very interesting - the reason why they wrote that way when I learned it. I thought it was pretty nifty writing but then just try chipping a message on a stone, it's not an easy thing to do.
10/29/2008, 1:29 pm Link to this post Send PM to Blog
 
Order ofMelchizedek Profile
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Re: Integrity


I've said it before, and I'll say it again.
quote:

Order ofMelchizedek wrote:

The Bible has the most manuscripts, the earliest manuscripts and the most consistant manuscripts.

The Bible is the most reliable Book in antiquity.

 emoticon

Read through the first post in this thread. It's spelled out quite clearly.




---

I'm running out of time, to live
Running out of love, to give
Running out of life, within
God help me --RSJ

10/29/2008, 4:17 pm Link to this post Send PM to
 
Morwen Oronor Profile
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Re: The Accuracy of the Bible


So let's get this straight. It's reliable because a whole lot of ancient texts were assembled by people biased towards its success - subjective history.
I's reliable because it has the oldest written history. So age of the writing is necessary for something to be reliable. Does this mean that the ancient graffiti on the walls of Pompeii are also reliable history. So when I read that some or other gladiator is an asshole... or that he has the biggest appendages on the walls of Pompeii or ancient Rome or when I read the cave drawings on the walls of the caves in Africa which far outdate the Bible for antiquity, this is proof of their truthfulness. Therefore I can take the age of the graffiti in Pompeii as absolute proof of the validity of the size of the galdiator's whatevers.
And it's reliable because of the consistency of the stories it contains (although I don't really know about the consistencies - there are quite a few contradictions but we're not discussing that here). So again, you say that a piece of written material is reliable because it of its consistency. So let's go to the graffiti again. Because this gladiator has a huge following (forgive the pun) and all his fans claim that, we have to accept that the graffiti that proclaims the size of his weapon is the truth and that this really was true.
I can see that you are no historian my friend, no a single history department of any university in the world would agree on these assumptions.
Read again what I said above. For something to be accepted as reliable we have to know: who wrote it, why they wrote, when and where they wrote it and what the circumstances of the writing were. And we don't rely on the writing itself to tell us this. We have to have evidence apart from the written work to answer the questions and in the absence of external evidence, the work is not considered valid ie. reliable.
10/29/2008, 11:26 pm Link to this post Send PM to Blog
 
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Re: The Accuracy of the Bible


Another silly response, and no, that's not straight at all. The Bible will never be "reliable" to you, because it goes against your preconceived beliefs - or lack thereof.
There is no amount of evidence that could change your mind - you've said that yourself.

Now, you are correct in that I am no historian. That is the reason I copied and pasted the the first three posts in this thread, from people with much more credentials than I.
I could post more of them, but I was told everyone was much more interested in my personal opinion, than the info and sources that I provided.

But again, check out those first posts, go to the websites, dig in and research.

Have you considered that you might have a double standard, due to you bias against Biblical writings in contrast to other works of antiquity?

---

I'm running out of time, to live
Running out of love, to give
Running out of life, within
God help me --RSJ

10/30/2008, 10:24 am Link to this post Send PM to
 
Morwen Oronor Profile
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Re: The Accuracy of the Bible


When it comes to history, I am totally objective which is more than I can say about people who regard the Bible as the only work of history worth reading.
And as a historian I have to apply the criteria for judging a work of writing to be authentic and valid. And I'm afraid that unfortunately it does not meet the criteria. My bias is not subjective; my bias is in favor of not bringing the discipline of History into disrepute.
You have not heard me say anything about the Koran not being valid. I don't believe in the philosophy of Islam but I do believe as does history in general believe that the book was written as a true reflection of what Mohammed taught. He might not have personally, physically written the words himself, but they are his words,
So don't call me biased for the sake of some subjective religious disbelief, I am biased on the side of objective historical validity.
When it comes to history, I place all my prejudice against religion in general aside to study the work that was written. I haven't said that the work of St Augustine or other religious writers is invalid either. In fact I would go so far as to say that portions of the Torah probably do date from a very long time ago, but the New Testament, I do not regard that as the work of the people who are purported to have written it and that is not because I'm not a Christian but because I am a historian.

Last edited by Morwen Oronor, 10/30/2008, 11:35 am
10/30/2008, 11:32 am Link to this post Send PM to Blog
 
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Re: The Accuracy of the Bible


You're biased against Christianity specifically, for some reason, and you cannot set that bias aside. That much is obvious from what little I've read of your posts.
You see, Satan doesn't care who or what you worship, as long as it's not the one true God of the Bible.

The evidence is there, the Bible is accurate. You do with that information what you will. emoticon

---

I'm running out of time, to live
Running out of love, to give
Running out of life, within
God help me --RSJ

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Petal Alderin Profile
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Re: The Accuracy of the Bible


Maybe Mel if you had read Mo's posts in full, instead of admitting how little of them you've read, you might be better qualified to form an opinion on what bias she may or may not have.

The way I read Mo, it's not Christianity that she's against - it's the way you put it across and the way you act while claiming to be a Christian, because your behaviour doesn't reflect her thoughts of what Christians should be.

---
Anything Goes
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Morwen Oronor Profile
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Re: The Accuracy of the Bible


Again with the personal attacks.
How do you know where my biases lie and don't lie, you read a few angry responses to your stupidity and then you accuse me of being biased against your religion.
I don't care whether you worship the a fat pregnant cow, or the first star that rises on the calends of July.
I'm not interested.
There's a huge difference between bias and indifference.
The problem is that you do not have any original thoughts. You haven't said one thing that has been a personal observation or the result of positing a hypothesis and then attempting to prove it. All you do is surf the web for some inane lecture, then you post it with some twee comment that sounds like a lecture to a group of Sunday School children and you expect us to be astounded by your intellect.
Think up something original, tell us that you think that such and such happened, in such and such a way but you would like to know what we think, and do we have any opinion about it. Then do some research to back up that original idea and show us your research. But stop with the cutting and pasting. It's boring, it's a lazy person's way of making their voice heard and it borders on plagiarism, which is theft.
If you tried to draw us into an intelligent conversation, yes, even if it is about religion, we night respond with kindness and friendship towards you. But if you continue to copy other people's ideas and put them forward as a lecture, we will continue to beat you down.

But you're not prepared to do this. You are so afraid that one of us will point out that you are wrong, so instead, when we disagree with you, you fling insults and personal comments at us and then make stupid remarks about bias against Christianity.
Let me repeat I am indifferent to all religions. I would give exactly the same kind of response if your lectures were about the breeding habits of the Tibetan yak.
10/30/2008, 1:23 pm Link to this post Send PM to Blog
 
Order ofMelchizedek Profile
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Re: The Accuracy of the Bible


quote:

Maybe Mel if you had read Mo's posts in full, instead of admitting how little of them you've read,

What I meant by that, Petal, is that my opinion and insight has been made solely off of posts, both here and other boards, but in the grand scheme of things - that's not much. I don't know her personally, only from what is revealed in posts. And that's not always what's meant to be revealed by those posts.
quote:

you might be better qualified to form an opinion on what bias she may or may not have.

The hatred towards Biblical Christianity is quite obvious.
quote:

Again with the personal attacks.

What personal attacks?
quote:

How do you know where my biases lie and don't lie, you read a few angry responses to your stupidity and then you accuse me of being biased against your religion.

Isn't that what you wanted, my own personal opinions on things?
quote:

I don't care whether you worship the a fat pregnant cow, or the first star that rises on the calends of July.

I know you don't. I already mentioned that.
quote:

You haven't said one thing that has been a personal observation

I did, you called it a "personal attack."
quote:

and you expect us to be astounded by your intellect.

Why would I expect that? Aren't you the "resident scholar"?
quote:

But stop with the cutting and pasting.

Stop making untrue accusations. Tell me, Morwen, when is the last "cut and paste" in this thread? I'll tell you, it was the first three posts of the first page. Now, 3 pages later, there hasn't been a single one by me. So what is the real problem?
quote:

it borders on plagiarism, which is theft.

Not if you give the source. Go check it out for yourself.
quote:

we will continue to beat you down.

Ok, have fun with that. I'll keep getting back up again.
quote:

But you're not prepared to do this. You are so afraid that one of us will point out that you are wrong, so instead, when we disagree with you, you fling insults and personal comments at us and then make stupid remarks about bias against Christianity.

Sometimes, I've responded in kind to the nonstop verbal assaults against me, but I've been restrained. Count them up. Let's see who has done more of that.

And when we were having an actual discussion, the going gets rough, and it is you who responds with jokes, mockery and changing the subject. When it gets too hot, you always run, and then accuse me of doing the same. What's that called?
quote:

Let me repeat I am indifferent to all religions.

I don't think you are. I believe that you hate the Lord and I believe it's due to pride and sin in your life. Just my opinion from what I've read from you.

---

I'm running out of time, to live
Running out of love, to give
Running out of life, within
God help me --RSJ

10/30/2008, 2:22 pm Link to this post Send PM to
 
Morwen Oronor Profile
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Re: The Accuracy of the Bible


I have to spell it out to you, here are examples:

Personal opinion: I think the moon is made of cheese.

Person comment: I think you are stupid.

If the words 'think' and 'you' appear in the same sentence it is a personal attack or a personal comment.

If they don't appear in the same sentence it is a personal opinion.

If you are prepared to offer one opinion of your own without quoting someone else's ideas, I might be inclined to respond respectfully as I do to other people.

I'm not telling you not to cite your research or to quote extracts from it, I am asking that you read the research then tell us in your own words what it says or direct us to the site to read it for ourselves if we choose to. But add to the link, your own interpretation of what the person is saying.
Why can't you do that, don't you see it's a far more interesting way to conduct a discussion.


And my jokes. Do you never see the funny side of anything? Lighten up don't take yourself so seriously.
10/30/2008, 3:05 pm Link to this post Send PM to Blog
 


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